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<description><![CDATA[This forum is open to the public and is a place for members and visitors to dialogue on topics of science and faith.]]></description>
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:52:26 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<pubDate>Tue, 5 Mar 2013 04:05:16 GMT</pubDate>
<copyright>Copyright &#xA9; 2013 American Scientific Affiliation</copyright>
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<title>Origin of the term &quot;evolutionary creation&quot;</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=460038</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=460038</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<div>At the recent ASA meeting at Point Loma a few of us were discussing the origin of the term "evolutionary creation" as an alternative to "theistic evolution". Obviously, Denis Lamoureux's 2008 book <span style="font-style: italic;">Evolutionary Creation: A Christian Approach to Evolution</span> which was based on Denis's earlier use of the term in a 2003 paper, made the term common-place in the evolution-creation discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>When Denis was asked about the term, he referred to Howard Van Till who had told Denis that the term had been used in Reformed circles for some time. I've been trying to track that down with little success.</div><div><br></div><div>While I can hardly believe that I coined the term, I first used it in a 1994 essay written as part of the tenure process at Calvin College entitled "Can a Christian Be an Evolutionist?" That essay is on-line at <a href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Physical%20Science/Gray1999.html">http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Physical%20Science/Gray1999.html</a> and at <a href="http://grayt2.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/can-a-christian-be-an-evolutionist/">http://grayt2.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/can-a-christian-be-an-evolutionist/</a> &nbsp;Paragraphs from that essay were used in later papers, for example a noontime seminar at Calvin College in 1995 at <a href="http://www.asa3.org/evolution/noontime.html.">http://www.asa3.org/evolution/noontime.html</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;I think Denis Lamoureux was still an anti-evolutionist at that time.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Here is the line from that essay.</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div>Since the term "theistic evolution" seems to be suspect for some reason, perhaps we should call it an "evolutionary creation". This semantic shift makes creation the noun rather than evolution, perhaps for the better.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>My personal recollection for writing that the term "theistic evolution" was suspect had to do with the very negative way the term "theistic evolution" was received in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church during 1992 and 1993 when the controversy over my views of evolution first began.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't find the term in the 1991 "Report on Creation and Science" from the Christian Reformed Church (on-line at <a href="http://www.crcna.org/site_uploads/uploads/resources/synodical/creation%20and%20science%20agenda%201991.pdf)">http://www.crcna.org/site_uploads/uploads/resources/synodical/creation%20and%20science%20agenda%201991.pdf</a>&nbsp;)&nbsp;where I might expect to see it if it had been used in Reformed circles since they summarized discussions in the Dutch Reformed world in that report. I don't find the term in Richard Bube's 1971 essay "We Believe in Creation" in <span style="font-style: italic;">Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation</span> <span style="font-weight: bold;">23:</span>121-122 (1971) (on-line at <a href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1971/JASA12-71Bube.html)">http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1971/JASA12-71Bube.html</a>&nbsp;)&nbsp;where the phrase would have been a fitting way to reclaim the term creation as distinct from "fiat" creation. I also don't find the term in Jan Lever's 1958 <span style="font-style: italic;">Creation and Evolution</span>. Lever was a biologist and was an early advocate in Dutch Reformed circles for some acceptance of evolutionary theory.</div><div><br></div><div>Lever does cite an 1899 essay by Abraham Kuyper who uses the term "evolutionistic creation" (the English translation). This essay entitled "Evolution" which can be found in English translation in the <span style="font-style: italic;">Calvin Theological Journal</span> <span style="font-weight: bold;">31:</span>11-50 (1996) (on-line at <a href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Kuyper.html).">http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Kuyper.html</a>&nbsp;).&nbsp;In section X Kuyper writes:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div>And that same difference would also distinguish such a divine evolutionistic creation from the Darwinian theory. Evolutionistic creation presupposes a God who first prepares the plan and then omnipotently executes it...</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So while Kuyper uses the same idea, in English translation he does not precisely use the term "evolutionary creation". Perhaps in the Dutch there is no difference between "evolutionistic creation" and "evolutionary creation".</div><div><br></div><div>Can anyone help with this puzzle?</div>      ]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2012 05:33:09 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>CreationWiki on Evolution and Entropy</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=516448</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=516448</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<div>The following article was published by CreationWiki:</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Wikipedia quotes "Entropy and evolution” (Am. J. Phys., Vol. 76, No. 11, November 2008) to prove that evolution does not violate the second law of thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_evolution). The article invents a false thermodynamic equation to prove the second law is not violated.</div><div><br></div><div>Thermodynamics is a branch of physics based on the concept of temperature (T), which is the sensation of hot and cold. Temperature is measured with a thermometer in degrees. Another basic variable is heat, which is what causes temperatures to change. Heat is measured in joules, ergs, or kilowatt hours. Entropy (S) is defined with an integral equation in terms of heat and temperature. It is measured in joule/degrees.</div><div><br></div><div>Temperature is related to the statistical concept of the average kinetic energy of molecules (KE), and entropy is related to the concept of thermodynamic probability (W). The kinetic energy of a molecule is determined by its speed and mass. Thermal probability can be understood by considering a system of non-interacting molecules in a container. If the gas has N molecules, imagine breaking up the container into N equal parts. The thermodyanic probability of all the molecules residing in one of the tiny compartments is one in N factorial (N!): N X N-1 X N-2… . The following equations describes the two relationships: KE = (3/2)kT and S = klogW. k is the Boltzmann constant and is determined experimentally to be 1.38 X 10<span style="vertical-align: super;">-23</span>&nbsp;joule/degree.</div><div><br></div><div>The second law of thermodynamics is that a gas will fill up the entire container it is in because that is the most probable distribution of gas molecules. It is possible, but improbable, for all of the molecules to be huddled in one corner of the container. In other words, in an isolated thermodynamic system entropy will always increase. If you compress a gas and extract heat from the gas, the entropy will decrease.</div><div><br></div><div>The second law does not apply to the evolution of stars. Stars are formed in outer space when the gravitational attraction between the hydrogen atoms causes the atoms to come together. It is not correct to say that the evolution of stars violates the second law. The second law only applies to systems of non-interacting particles or entities.</div><div><br></div><div>The second law also does not apply to evolution because a living organism is not a collection of non-interacting particles. The equations of thermodynamics include chemical reactions, however, a living organism is not the result of chemical reactions. The formation of proteins from amino acids and DNA is not a chemical reaction.</div><div><br></div><div>However, there is a very slight connection between evolution and statistical mechanics. There are 20 amino acids, and the primary structure of an average sized protein is a chain of 300 amino acids. The probability of getting the primary structure by the random selection of amino acids is one in 20<span style="vertical-align: super;">300</span>, a number which has 390 zeros after the decimal point. The smallness of this probability and the shortness of time over which evolution is supposed to have taken place (3.5 billion years) is one of the reasons Darwinism explains only the adaptation of species to the environment.</div><div><br></div><div>This kind of probabilistic calculation gives rise to the error that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics. "Entropy and evolution” argues, quite irrationally, that evolution does not violate the second law because of the sun. That the following drivel can appear in a peer-reviewed article on physics boggles the mind:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div>The creationist argument is that advanced organisms are more orderly than primitive organisms, and hence as evolution proceeds living things become more ordered, that is less disordered, that is less entropic. Because the second law of thermodynamics prohibits a decrease in entropy, it therefore prohibits biological evolution…..These misconceptions have been pointed out numerous times, but here we explicitly and quantitatively answer questions such as "What entropy changes accompany evolution?” and "If the entropy here on Earth is decreasing due to evolution, where is the other piece of the universe where the entropy is increasing?”….The Sun emits heat and hence decreases in entropy, while outer space absorbs heat and hence increases in entropy. Meanwhile, the Earth is nearly constant in entropy.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What the author, who thanked the peer-reviewers for helping him write the article, is trying to say is that entropy increases only for isolated systems not affected by outside forces or inputs. The sun is what caused the entropy of the biosphere to decrease during evolution. But as the article points out, heat from the sun increases entropy. The article makes no sense at all.</div><div><br></div><div>However, it is one thing not to make sense, it is another thing to write down an incorrect equation in physics. The author considers organism A evolving into organism B over a period of 100 years, and estimates that organism B is 1000 times less probable than organism A. The author then uses this number to calculate the decrease in entropy with the help of the Boltzmann constant and the equation for entropy. This is absurd because the Boltzmann constant comes from observations about atomic systems. The probability of shuffling a deck of cards and getting it back to its original factory order is one in 52! It is nonsense to plug this number into the equation for entropy to measure the entropy of a deck of cards in joule/degrees. Likewise, it is nonsense to calculate the entropy change of the biosphere in joule/degrees during evolution.</div><div><br></div><div>It may strikes some that the estimate of 1000 was not supported by any evidence. However, in a note titled "Evolution and the second law of thermodynamics,” (Am. J. Phys., Vol. 77, No. 10, October 2009) the evolution of proteins was considered by a different author and the estimate of 1000 increased to 10<span style="vertical-align: super;">199</span>. This new calculation did not change the conclusion that evolution does not violate the second law of thermodynamics.</div> ]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 1 Jan 2013 19:59:51 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Review of End of Darwinism by Eugene Windchy</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=540107</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=540107</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: 15px; font-weight: bold;">Review of The End of Darwinism: And How a Flawed and Disastrous Theory Was
Stolen and Sold (Kindle Edition) by David Roemer (published on Amazon.com)</span><br>

<p>This informative and enjoyable book tells about the
Piltdown hoax and the fake drawings of Ernst Haeckel, the famous advocate of
Darwinism in Germany. There is another hoax about evolution that has not yet
been exposed. It is widely believed by physicists that evolution does not
violate the second law of thermodynamics, according to which nature tends to go
from order to disorder. In fact, the <span style="font-style: italic;">American Journal of Physics</span> published an
article ("Entropy and evolution," Am. J. Phys., Vol. 76, No. 11,
November 2008) and a note ("Evolution and the second law of
thermodynamics," Am. J. Phys., Vol. 77, No. 10, October 2009) with fake
calculations proving that the second law is not violated. The truth is that the
second law does not apply to biological evolution or the evolution of stars.</p>

<p>The idea that a living organism is a thermodynamic system
is similar to the absurd idea that natural selection acting upon innovations
explains how mammals evolved from bacteria in only 3.5 billion years. It takes
a fertilized egg 18 years to produce all of the cells in a human. (I know
because my urologist told me the prostate gland stops growing at this age and
starts growing again at the age of 30, so much for intelligent design.) Not
enough is known about the innovations natural selection acts upon to understand
how the same thing happened with a bacterium as the starting point. Evolutionary
biologists always speak of "adaptive evolution." Darwin expressed
this by saying it was "absurd in the highest degree" to think natural
selection gave us the human eye.</p>

<p>Windchy sees in this quote from Charles Darwin some kind
of self-delusion. He also misrepresents the way mainstream biologists rebut the
idea of "irreducible complexity" put forth by advocates of
intelligent design. It is not rebutted it in peer-reviewed journals and biology
textbooks, but it is ridiculed only in popular books, magazines, and lectures.</p>

<p>Windchy thinks the theory of intelligent design is
reasonable. I think it is irrational because there is no evidence for it. But
it is also dishonest not to admit that intelligent design is a better theory
than natural selection, in some sense. This raises the question of why one side
in this conflict about evolutionary biology is irrational and the other side is
dishonest. The general answer is that evolution is related to religion, and
religion causes conflict between people. Conflict causes anxiety, and
inhibition is a defense mechanism for anxiety. Advocates of intelligent design
and their opponents are inhibited from thinking rationally and behaving
honestly.</p>

<p>My theory is that both sides don't understand the
cosmological argument for God's existence. See: <span style="font-style: italic;">The One and the Many: A
Contemporary Thomistic Metaphysics</span>. They both think the argument has to do with
the Big Bang and a "first cause." The cosmological argument is based
on the observation that human beings have free will. This means humans are
finite beings, as well as embodied spirits. Since a finite being needs a cause,
an infinite being exists if the universe is intelligible. Hindus and Buddhists
have a different terminology, but in the West we call the infinite being <span style="font-style: italic;">God</span>.</p>

<p>God was motivated to create finite beings because He loved
Himself as giving. But He just as well could love Himself without giving. We
don't explain our existence by thinking God created us and keeps us in
existence, and we can't use God's existence to answer scientific questions. The
evidence that the universe is intelligible is the success of the scientific
method and the fact that things don't pop into or out of existence. Windchy
thinks the Big Bang, the origin of life, evolution, and the fine-tuning of the
coupling constants in physics is evidence that God exists. In my opinion, these
phenomena are evidence God does not exist.</p>

<!--EndFragment--> ]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:05:16 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>keith davis article in the previous PERSPECTIVES issue</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=539046</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=539046</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I am much impressed with this article, which combines a&nbsp; discussion on the scientific philosophy/methodology and the climate change "debate."</p><p>What do others think of it? Are there any problems? I found none myself.&nbsp; John Burgeson, ASA member</p>]]></description>
<pubDate>Fri, 1 Mar 2013 20:37:11 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Visit to VA</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=533985</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=533985</guid>
<description><![CDATA[I will be visiting the DC area from March 12-25 and would love to meet up with any ASA members in the area. Not sure if this is how to contact folks--if not, please let me know. &nbsp;Caroline Crocker (drcrocker@me.com)]]></description>
<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:23:04 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Ten Things a Christian Should Know</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=506214</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=506214</guid>
<description><![CDATA[ 
<P>Ten Things a Christian Should Know About Bible, Science and History </P>
<P>With Scripture as a basis and by factoring in data and evidence readily available from other sources both scientific and historical, we can arrive at certain conclusions that may test time-honored explanations from theological sources, but are "time-honored” explanations sufficient for 21<SUP>st</SUP> Century Christians?</P>
<P>1. Our universe began in an immense explosion, commonly called the "<A href="http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_theory.html">Big Bang</A>,” perhaps from nothing, about 13.7 billion years ago, earth time. There are no known laws of physics that can account for this as a purely "natural” event. For deists, theists and Christians this was an act of a Creator God.</P>
<P>2. Our <A href="http://space.about.com/od/solarsystem/tp/sun10things.htm">sun</A> is a second or third generation star that began to accrete roughly 4.6 billion years ago. The earth is <A href="http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html">dated</A> to the same age by using <A href="http://www.astro.washington.edu/users/smith/Astro150/Labs/RadioDating/">radiometric decay</A> rate techniques. Moon rocks brought back from the Apollo missions were dated by three labs, using six different measures and the average age calculated was similar to the earth. Meteorites that have been measured with similar radiometric techniques have yielded similar ages to the earth and moon, indicating that our solar system likely resulted from a dying star that exploded roughly 5 billion years ago.</P>
<P>3. Organic, replicating life <A href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/brief-history-life.html">began</A> on planet earth three billion years ago beginning a long chain of plant and animal species linked by common ancestry culminating in human beings who branched off the higher primate limb about six million years ago beginning with bipedalism as the first identifiable demarcation. The amount of divine action or inaction in the process of change with modification that occurred throughout eons of time resulting in the creation of new species and the extinction of others is a subject of current debate with no convincing data on either side to date.</P>
<P>4. Although at least four different species of humans lived in different locations on the earth 100,000 years ago, all became extinct with the exception of our own species, <A href="http://www.humanorigins.si.edu/"><I>Homo sapiens</I></A>, who can be traced back as far as 200,000 years ago. As implied by our genetic code, currently existing humankind shares mutual common ancestry with all other previously existing human species and all precursors to humans. Humans are connected to the phyletic tree of life and are not the result of a special act of divine creation with no chain of ancestry.</P>
<P>4. Early humans left no written records until the <A href="http://www.ancientscripts.com/sumerian.html">Sumerians</A> invented writing using the cuneiform technique beginning about 5,500 years ago. Akkadians living in the same area of southern Mesopotamia learned to write from their Sumerian neighbors and recorded their own version of history in an early Semitic language. Since the Akkadian language precedes other Semitic tongues; Ugarit, Canaanitish-Babylonian, Assyrian, Aramaic and Hebrew we can deduce that the Akkadians were a founding culture including the named patriarchs starting with "Adam” identified first in Genesis 2 and referenced throughout both the Old and New Testaments.</P>
<P>5. The dating and authorship of Genesis 1-2:4 have long been in dispute. It appears to be a standalone, disconnected from the Genesis 2:5-10 narrative. Exegetes throughout history including Origen, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin have weighed in with opinions as to its genre and intended meaning, however, with a few caveats the narrative is in rough agreement with Big Bang cosmology and the fossil record. The sequence of "days” can be interpreted as <A href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1990/PSCF3-90Fischer.html">long periods</A> of indefinite duration in agreement with Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. The fourth "day” can be seen as a day of appointment or commissioning of the heavenly bodies as timekeepers - not their coming into existence through an act of special creation. The Hebrew <I>op</I> has been translated "fowls” or "birds” in Genesis 1:20, 22, 26 whereas "flying creatures” such as insects satisfies the Hebrew and may have been what was intended originally. Other small <A href="http://www.genesisproclaimed.org/resources/articles.asp?ArtLabel=genonebigbang">corrections</A> in the translation consistent with the original Hebrew bring Bible and science into closer alignment. Resorting to allegory, poetry, mythology or tradition as a harmonizing device is totally unnecessary.</P>
<P>6. Although a spiritual component cannot be denied in the Genesis text beginning with Gen. 2:5, most of the persons, places and events can be corroborated with the documented history of the ancient Near East beginning in southern Mesopotamia, present-day Iraq, around 7,000 years ago. Although the period of history from <A href="http://www.historicalgenesis.com/">Adam to Abraham</A> has been considered true human history by some and fallacious human history by others, it can be believed as the legitimate history of the Semitic race beginning with the <A href="http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-ancient-history/akkad.html">Akkadians</A>.</P>
<P>7. Adam as the named founder of the Semitic race has historical ties corroborating his existence as a living, breathing human being. The names "<A href="http://www.egyptianmyths.net/atum.htm">Atum</A>” and Seth appear in Egyptian inscriptions that predate the Exodus. The <A href="http://www.historicalgenesis.com/synopses.aspx?chapter=06">Legend of Adapa</A> contains numerous parallels to the biblical Adam. The name "Adamu” appears frequently in Akkadian legends. As the first named individual in human history Adam has further status as the first man to have a covenant relationship with his Creator. Adam was the first man held accountable for his actions, the first to "sin,” and the first to suffer the consequences of divine retribution. Although some living today may have ancestral roots that lead back to Adam, all of us have roots that extend back in time to the first living life forms to appear on planet earth. </P>
<P>8. The biblical flood was restricted to a region along the Euphrates River in southern Mesopotamia. It has been dated to roughly <A href="http://www.noahs-ark-flood.com/otscholr.htm">2900 BC</A> and can be seen as judgment upon the Adamic race that had become polytheistic through the corruptive influence of the nearby Sumerians who lived far enough east of the primary flood zone to survive. In addition to the Bible, parallel flood stories from that region corroborate the event. The <A href="http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr211.htm">Sumerian King List</A>, states, "Then the flood swept thereover.” Atrahasis, <A href="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked=" Ziusudra? 657605 topic checked?>Ziusudra</A>, the <A href="http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab11.htm">Eleventh Tablet of Gilgamesh</A>, and <A href="http://www.livius.org/fa-fn/flood/flood3-t-berossus.html">Berossus</A> all contain words and phrases found also in the Genesis 6-9 narrative.</P>
<P>9. The dispersion of the sons of Noah is detailed in Genesis 10. Almost every named descendant and tribe has been identified taking up residence with the indigenous cultures in the Middle East, northern Africa, and along the Mediterranean basin. Displacement, cohabitation, assimilation and annihilation occurred in various degrees in various locations. The <A href="http://www.historicalgenesis.com/synopses.aspx?chapter=19">Tower of Babel</A> incident involved the descendants of Arphaxad living in Babylon who were caught up in a ziggurat building contest with neighboring Mesopotamian cities. These mud brick platforms began to be constructed after the flood to survive future floods, but in time became massive structures containing altars dedicated to pagan city gods. The biblical event has been misconstrued as the place where languages began, however, even the Akkadians and Sumerians living in the same region spoke unrelated languages prior to the event.</P>
<P>10. It is easy to find explanations contrary to these coming from non-Christian and Christian sources alike. Some of these are based upon biblical tradition, some are advanced by liberal theologians, some come from credentialed scientists, some involve space aliens, and some are touted by <A href="http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1990/PSCF3-90Fischer.html">creationist</A> organizations that may have good intentions or may have an agenda. Check out the facts for yourself. If you are satisfied that these explanations have value in advancing the case for biblical integrity and can help remove at least one impediment to the gospel message going forward, then please pass it on colleagues, family and friends.</P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:03:51 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Jonah and the Whale</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=372828</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=372828</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P>Jonah as a Parable </P>
<P>Matt 12:38-40 NIV The Sign of Jonah<BR><SUP>38</SUP> Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” <SUP>39</SUP> He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. <SUP>40</SUP> For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. </P>
<P>Luke 11:29-30 HCSB</P>
<P><SUP>29</SUP> As the crowds were increasing, He began saying: "This generation is an evil generation. It demands a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah. <SUP>30</SUP> For just as Jonah became a sign to the people of Nineveh, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation. </P>
<P>From Defending Inerrancy, Normal L. Geiser, William C. Roach, p.230-231 "For example, when Jesus affirmed that Jonah was in "the belly of the great fish," this statement is true, not simply because of the redemptive significance the story of Jonah has, <EM>but because it is literally and historically true</EM> [i.e., it corresponds to reality]." (Italics original.) </P>
<P>By calling attention to the verse in Matthew, the inerrantists indirectly refer to the parallel verse in Luke. According to Luke, Jesus did not mention Jonah being in the belly of a whale. Hence, instead of defending inerrancy, the authors inadvertently weaken their case and end up defending errancy. The two statements by Jesus are very different. The question of course is, which of the two is correct? </P>
<P>The statement may not be true if one accepts the testimony of Luke. Ignoring this significant problem for the moment, in the Matthew context, Jesus could be referring to either a true story, or a parable-prophecy of His forthcoming resurrection. It is not unreasonable to assume Jesus knew it was a parable, since He used many parables to teach about the kingdom of God. </P>
<P>Some level of support comes from [1] "The book of Jonah is considered by some to be a parable to convey a theological point about God's attitude towards Gentiles." </P>
<P>A plausible view is that Jonah was dead during his three days in the whale and, like Lazarus in John 11, his life was restored after he was disembarked onto dry land (2:10). But in ch. 2 he prays while inside the great fish. Acceptance of this as historical fact incurs a severe case of heartburn. </P>
<P>It is certain that Jesus was dead when "in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights," because the truth of the Resurrection demands this. But Jonah wasn't dead while in the whale, but alive and praying. Hence, if the story of Jonah is true, the comparison of Jonah with Jesus is not exact. But as a parable-prophecy of Jesus' impending resurrection, the analogy does not have to be exact. </P>
<P>Did the people of Nineveh know that Jonah had been in the belly of a whale for three days? Not according to the book of Jonah. He preached repentance to Nineveh after he left the whale. (Jonah 3) What "sign" then was Jesus referring to? As mentioned previously, from the context in Matthew, He was referring to the three days and nights in the whale, in spite of the fact that Nineveh was apparently not aware of Jonah's 72-hour voyage. Per Luke 11, the only sign for Nineveh was the appearance of Jonah voicing his warning of destruction in 40 days. (3:4) </P>
<P>The city of Tarshish is somewhere in the western Mediterranean; some think it was on the Atlantic side of ancient Spain. Jonah boarded his ship to Tarshish in Joppa, (present-day Jaffa) which is on the coast of Palestine about 35 miles from Jerusalem. The whale apparently carried him eastward from the ship back to the eastern shore of the Mediterranean in Palestine. </P>
<P>The city of Nineveh was located on the Tigris river, in present-day Iraq. From the closest point of eastern Mediterranean shoreline, Nineveh is about 370 miles from the Mediterranean Sea. Hence Jonah had to walk across the deserts of Israel, Syria, and Iraq to reach Nineveh. Assuming he could walk 25 miles a day (or night), this would be about a 15-day journey. Jonah could barely stand one day in the heat (4:8) much less 15 days. This is another miracle in the book of Jonah that few people take note of. However, as a parable, it is not important how he got there. </P>
<P>As an aside, pastor-author Chuck Swindoll is an ex-Marine, and was stationed with the 3rd Marine Division on Okinawa. In one of his sermons he said: "When the whale belched Jonah up on the beach at Nineveh, this was the first amphibious landing in recorded history."</P>
<P>[1] HCSB Study Bible, Holman Bible Publishers, 2010, p.1514 </P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:58:38 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Evolution and Imago Dei by Sy Garte in God and Nature</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=484153</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=484153</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<div>The author thinks that the only difference between humans and animals is that humans change and animals do not. This is the only difference that atheists grasp and will admit to, however, you don’t explain why humans were created in the image of God by quoting Richard Dawkins and materialistic neuroscientists. You explain it by proving that humans are embodied spirits.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The difference between humans and animals is that humans have minds with four levels and animals only have brains, with no levels at all. The lowest level is observation. Take, for example, knowing that the sky is blue. This means more than that light is entering our eyes and a signal is going to our brains. It means an awareness of this. What is this awareness? What are the mental images that humans can create after they observe an object?</div><div><br></div><div>When animals have nothing to do, they go to sleep. Humans ask questions about what they observe. Humans want to know the cause of things, the relationship between things, and the unity between things. &nbsp;Extremely intelligent humans invent hypotheses or insights. &nbsp;What is causality? What are concepts and other mental constructs? &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Humans don't invent hypotheses for the fun of it, but want to know whether they are true or just probable. At this level, humans marshal the evidence and decide whether a hypothesis is true. This level requires being rational. What is truth?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The fourth level is deciding what to do with our bodies. This level requires being responsible. What is the relationship between ourselves and our bodies?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Thus, humans are attentive, intelligent, rational, and responsible animals. None of these four adjectives can be defined or explicated. This means humans are indefinabilities that become conscious of their own existence. Two other ways of saying this is that humans are embodied spirits and the human soul is spiritual.</div><div><br></div><div>These unanswerable questions about the human mind lead to God's existence because we know that other humans exist. Humans are finite beings because our existence is limited to ourselves. Since finite beings need a cause, an infinite being exists. The infinite being is called God in Western religions. &nbsp; &nbsp;</div><div><br></div>]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:33:59 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>If Truth Be Known by Clarence Menninga</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=479745</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=479745</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<div>Human beings observe the remains of animals that can’t be observed, and ask: Where did the remains come from? Scientists invented the theory of evolution: Life evolved from bacteria to mammals over a period of 3.5 billion years.</div><div><br></div><div>The author, a member of ASA and a teacher at Calvin College, marshals the evidence for the theory of evolution (carbon dating, fossils, geological observations), and discusses the evidence put forth by creationists to show the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Menninga respects creationism because it is based on an interpretation of the Bible, however, he feels knowledge of our salvation history is compromised by the rejection of the scientific history of our planet.</div><div><br></div><div>Menninga rejects the idea that evolution is a fact. He is quite right because there is another theory, related to the Bible and religious faith, that many scientists believe is true. It is the theory that free will is an illusion. There is very little evidence for this theory, which arises from the question: What is the relationship between myself and my body? The answer to this question supported by evidence is that free will is a mystery and humans are embodied spirits. This is why it is important to distinguish between observations and theories.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>One of the arguments advanced by creationists is that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics, and Menninga addresses this question. Unfortunately, he shows a lack of understanding of thermodynamics and of evolutionary biology.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Fact or theory, evolution gives rise to the question of what caused it. The only theories that even attempt to explain evolution are creationism and the theory of intelligent design (ID). Forgetting about orthogenesis, the other theory is natural selection, but natural selection only explains the adaptation of species to the environment. It does not explain the increase in the complexity of living organisms as the evolved from bacteria to mammals.</div><div><br></div><div>Evolutionary biologists always speak of "adaptive evolution.” The old model for evolution is a tornado hitting a junkyard and producing a Boeing 747 in flight. The new model is a computer generating an English sonnet by the random selection of letters. This model is an attempt to understand the evolution of the primary structure of a protein, which is a chain of hundreds of amino acids. The benefit of the new model is that you can calculate how long it would take a computer to do this. No one has done this calculation because nobody cares. No evolutionary biologist thinks natural selection explains the complexity of life. I refer skeptical readers to an award-winning book by professors of biology at Harvard and Berkeley (<span style="font-style: italic;">The Plausibility of Life: Resolving Darwin’s Dilemma</span>). Another reference from mainstream biologists is <span style="font-style: italic;">Biology’s First Law: The Tendency for Diversity and Complexity to Increase in Evolutionary Systems</span>.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">Note:</span> This is the first half of the review I posted on Amazon.com where I downloaded <span style="font-style: italic;">If Truth Be Known</span> for free. I came across the book because Dr. Menninga sent me an email saying that I was wrong about an <span style="font-style: italic;">American Journal of Physics</span> article ("Entropy and evolution") being absurd. The rest of my review explains the second law of thermodynamics and evolution. Most of what I say I already said on my Open Forum topic about the <span style="font-style: italic;">American Journal of Physics</span>. I'v attached the article that should be retracted and says the same thing Dr. Menninga says in his otherwise informative book.&nbsp;</div> ]]></description>
<pubDate>Sat, 6 Oct 2012 16:12:49 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>original human population size</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=443369</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=443369</guid>
<description><![CDATA[I’m new on the forum page and, not being a scientist, I’ve recently joined ASA as a follower. Because I generally lack contact with specialists in the sciences, my hope is that this forum page will be a means of answering some questions that have been bothering me. <br><br>My question at the moment involves the current evidence that there was no original first human couple but rather a population of several thousand at least. The Sept 2010 issue of <span style="font-style: italic;">PSCF</span> covered this and related topics such as the increasing evidence for common descent. Still, I’m not sure I even understand the meaning of this claim concerning the number of the first humans. <br><br>If in the following description I’m entirely off base, please correct my misunderstanding.<br><br>My understanding of the orthodox Darwinian view is that for evolution to occur an individual has a genetic mutation that happens to be beneficial in the sense that it bestows some survival advantage in the particular environment one finds oneself. Assuming some mutation brought about the first modern human (hereafter, <span style="font-style: italic;">human</span>), this mutation would have to occur for one individual. Technically, one individual would produce the mutation, mate with another non-human primate who lacks the mutation, and potentially produce an heterozygous offspring. Suppose the offspring were a male, call him M2-1. (M2-1 would mean, M: male, 2: second generation, and −1: heterozygous; −2 would indicate homozygous, −0 would indicate no mutation for the given gene.) M2-1 would mate with F2-0 and one or more of their offspring could maintain the heterozygous mutation. Or M2-1 could mate with a sibling who happens to have the mutation, F2-1, and possibly produce one or more homozygous, heterozygous, or non-mutated offspring. The selective advantage of this mutation will gradually increase these humanly mutated individuals in the breeding population.<br><br><p>So M2-1 would start producing in a non-human breeding population and after a number of generations displace most or all non-humans with heterozygous humans, and then, eventually, with entirely homozygous humans. If the above description is correct, we must begin with a single human, gradually increase the number of humans to a very small number, gradually increase that number to a larger number, and then eventually increase their number to displace the non-human population entirely. </p><p>The population must eventually become completely homozygous so that no possible non-humans are produced. Possibly only the homozygous are truly human since the heterozygous individuals may have non-human characteristics expressed if the non-human allele is dominant. If this were the case, this could provide a mechanism for removing the heterozygous primates and the non-mutated primates since they could not compete as well. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p></p><p></p><p style="font-weight: bold;">My question is, How can someone say there has always been at least several thousand humans if we must start with one individual human and gradually increase that number?</p><p></p><br><p>Whoever wishes to answer this, once you do so, I will have one or more questions for you, but relatively simple ones I think.</p><p>Thanks to whoever might help me with this. <br></p><p></p>]]></description>
<pubDate>Sun, 8 Jul 2012 22:21:59 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Percent of extant species which have fossilized</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=351119</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=351119</guid>
<description><![CDATA[When talking to my YEC friends, I have discussed the rarity with which an organism fossilizes. I have quoted a figure that I've heard for many years -- that 90% of all existing species have never fossilized. I've not been able to find my original source for this.<div><br></div><div>Further, there is a creationist video series which states the exact opposite: that 95% of all living species have left behind fossils. Likewise, they do not site a reference.</div><div><br></div><div>Does anyone have a reference which will clear this up? Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Brute Wolf M.D.</div><div>Tulsa, Oklahoma</div>]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 00:10:55 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>The Fallen World of Cyberspace</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=457645</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=457645</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P><BR>Now that Information Technology (IT) has grown into the status of an Age, the Digital Age, I look back and see not only its benefits, but also the vast array of spam, frauds, hackers, malware, trojans, viruses, worms, social engineering, and cyber warfare that has emerged, following every new technology advance right on its heels. </P>
<P><BR>This is a new reflection of the fallen world. All emerging within my adult lifetime. </P>
<P><BR>I remember when I got my first IBM PC computer, back in about 1987, the "dark ages". I joined a large local PC users group (remember them?) One of the meetings discussed computer viruses, and many of us doubted whether such a thing could even exist. Today, 25 years later, I heard General Keith Alexander of NSA proposing a full military command in charge of "cybersecurity". He is earnestly seeking the services of "black hat" hackers in developing these skills -- and their defenses -- for training across the workforce. </P>
<P><BR>I have personally never been interested in hacking, but apparently some people are. Networked computer systems, because of their ability to copy and share code, are inherently vulnerable to self-corruption and self-destruction. It only takes one evil person to create a virus that will then spread exponentially through the network. Hence it takes constant, vigilant human intervention by "white hats" to maintain stable operation on a network. </P>
<P><BR>But of course sometimes a "white hat" has a "black hat" underneath. So evil comes back to its origin -- the human level. We are back into the fallen world of ordinary human life. We cannot easily distinguish good from evil. If we could unambiguously, consistently, distinguish friend from foe then evil would soon be banished from the planet. But in all of human history, in all kinds of the strictest, most well-intentioned organizations, it never has been eliminated. </P>
<P><BR>Hence we are obliged to spend billions on security, surveillance, intelligence, defense, vigilance, patches, updates, upgrades, etc. A network is like a living organism; it needs an immune system. Such a system is necessarily dynamic, basing its defenses on the nature of the attack.&nbsp;As any living system, which&nbsp;must devote a certain amount of metabolic overhead to self-defense, or else it would die in short order. </P>
<P><BR>One wonders, with all the viruses about, why life -- or the network -- lives at all. The answer goes back to a definition of evil attributed to St. Augustine: evil is not an entity in itself; it is the absence of the good, the absence of normal. It cannot exist by itself; it only exists as a parasite on the good. Viruses derive their energy and reproductive power only from the good engine of normal cell replication. </P>
<P><BR>So the good must have existed before evil. This too is true of cyberspace. The Internet standards, like TCP/IP, HTTP etc. were carefully designed protocols created specifically to carry out communication functions. That was their purpose. They have mechanisms to tolerate faults, dropouts, congestion, noise, etc. but not deliberate, malicious abuse of the protocols themselves. That abuse starts from the top layer of the system, from evil humans. There is nothing evil or wrong in the protocols themselves (other than design flaws which are continually being repaired), but the evil comes from outside. It is parasitic on the system and exploits it. Malware actions are often called "exploits". Sometimes systems can be brought to a standstill by denial-of-service attacks, or other systemic failures. The ultimate remedy for malware: wipe the disk, do a clean install and start over. </P>
<P><BR>In the organism, in some cases viral infections can overcome the healthy organism and destroy it. But in the long term, for over a billion years, we are comforted by the fact that life has gone on; good ultimately triumphs over evil. </P>
<P><BR>It has done so, partly, because of apoptosis -- individuals sacrificing their lives for the survival of the whole. Survival emerges from death and failure. Evolution destroys evil by dying to contain it. Atonement leads to salvation. Wipe the disk, do a clean install and start over. Be born again. <BR>　</P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 23:40:30 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Cosmos</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439704</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439704</guid>
<description><![CDATA[What do you think about the compatibility of the physical end of the universe and Christian eschatology. What will the new creation be made out of?<BR>]]></description>
<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:23:21 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>A Petition for your consideration</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=354476</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=354476</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P>I have done some research&nbsp;near&nbsp;the arctic and I have taught environmental biology, so I received this email.</P>
<P>The petition&nbsp;certainly seems to align with our objectives of being notable stewards of our environment and PEW Charitable Trust generally aligns with our thinking. There can be no doubt that the studies called for are needed before it is too late.&nbsp; All we have to do is look at the fisheries further south in both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans to see the consequences of&nbsp;unstudied and unregulated fisheries versus those of studied and regulated fisheries.</P>
<P>I offer it to those of you who might want to consider signing it ---</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>From: Pew Environment Group - Int'l Arctic Program [mailto:Pew_Environment_Group_Int_l_Arct@mail.vresp.com] <BR>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:39 PM<BR></P>
<P>Subject: Sign a Letter for an Int’l Arctic Fisheries Agreement Dear Colleague,<BR></P>
<P>The Arctic Ocean's permanent ice is diminishing due to climate change, potentially opening the international waters of the central Arctic Ocean to commercial fishing. Because these waters are not currently governed by an international fisheries agreement, international action is needed to ensure that commercial fishing does not start ahead of science and management.<BR><BR>The Pew Environment Group's International Arctic Program has worked with several prominent scientists to draft a letter asking Arctic governments to develop an international agreement to address fisheries in the central Arctic Ocean based on sound scientific and precautionary principles. We are looking for others who are able to provide support in this effort.<BR><BR>Go&nbsp; to <A href="http://oceansnorth.org/support-international-arctic-fisheries-agreement">http://oceansnorth.org/support-international-arctic-fisheries-agreement</A> to read and sign the letter.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Henry P. Huntington, Ph.D.<BR>Arctic Science Director, Pew Environment Group<BR><BR><BR>Other Signers Include:David Barber, Ph.D.<BR>Centre for Earth Observation Science, University of Manitoba, CanadaJackie Grebmeier, Ph.D.<BR>Chesapeake Biological Laboratory, University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science, USAAlan Springer, Ph.D.<BR>School of Fisheries and Ocean Sciences, University of Fairbanks Alaska, USA<BR>Stanislav Ye. Belikov, Ph.D.<BR>All-Russian Research Institute for Nature Protection, Moscow, RussiaPeter Rask Møller, Ph.D.<BR>Natural History Museum of Denmark, University of Copenhagen, DenmarkPaul Wassmann, Ph.D.<BR>Faculty of Biosciences, Fisheries and Economics, University of Tromsø, Norway<BR>M.V. Flint, Ph.D.<BR>Shirshov Institute of Oceanology, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, RussiaDaniel Pauly, Ph.D.<BR>Fisheries Centre &amp; Zoology Department, University of British Columbia, Canada .</P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:28:07 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Colorado/western US fires</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439706</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439706</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P>On behalf of all ASA'ers, I'd like to express our deep concern and our prayers for the safety of our members and their families&nbsp;in Colorado and other affected states with these unprecedented fires. The threat is not only physical life and possessions but psychological, emotional, and spiritual trauma. As scientists, we are concerned about the factors causing so many intense fires and, after these fires are contained,&nbsp;we need to work to reduce the potential for any recurrence. As Christians, we seek to care for one another and reach out with a loving and helping hand.</P>
<P>If any of you are directly affected, please share your experiences in this forum.</P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:27:27 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Artifical Intelligents and Reductionism </title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439301</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=439301</guid>
<description><![CDATA[I would like to know how Christians would respond to people who claim that technology such as Artifical Intelligences, Mind Uploading,Brain/Computer interface and Artifical conciousness? Now&nbsp;I am a christian myself but I have ran over this issue and I am kind of stumped by it. If somebody can create a human just like&nbsp;us that has morality and can reason then where do we&nbsp;go from there. We&nbsp;are no longer unique becuase we are nothing but neurons firing off. We can say good bye to the idea of an afterlife because there will be no soul to go to heaven. Also with Cloneing the&nbsp;fact that we can Clone something; what does that mean for the clone can it&nbsp;go to heaven, will it have religious experiences?&nbsp;AI just opens a who bunch of questions&nbsp;that can ruin&nbsp;our need for God.&nbsp;]]></description>
<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:29:28 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>American Journal of Physics</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=357257</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=357257</guid>
<description><![CDATA[On the website of the Skeptics Society, in a moderated blog topic ("Evolution and Religion”), I said Richard Dawkins was wrong when he said this:<br><br>"When creationists say, as they frequently do, that the theory of evolution contradicts the Second Law of Thermodynamics, they are telling us no more than that they don’t understand the Second Law (we already knew that they don’t understand evolution). There is no contraction, because of the sun!” (Richard Dawkins, <span style="font-style: italic;">The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution</span>, p. 415)<br><br>The Deputy Director of the National Center for Science Education, Glenn Branch, said that I was wrong and cited an article by Emory F. Bunn titled, "Evolution and the second law of thermodynamics,” published in <span style="font-style: italic;">American Journal of Physics</span> [(2009) 77(10):922-925]. This article does indeed present calculations involving the sun showing that evolution does not violate the second law.<br><br>I think the American Journal of Physics erred in publishing this article it for two reasons.The first reason is that the insight evolution violates this law comes from biologists, and only biologists are qualified to discuss it competently. The second reason is that the author has an understanding of the second law that is different from my understanding of it. One of us must be wrong.<br><br>If a gas in a container is connected with a valve to a vacuum and the valve is opened, the gas will flow into the empty container. There is more knowledge of the location of the gas molecules in the small volume than in the large volume. There is an increase in disorder or a decrease in complexity. Entropy is another word for order. Entropy always decreases in nature, according to the second law.<br><br>If a gas in a container has a piston that can compress the gas, an animal can increase the complexity of the gas by pushing the piston. This does not violate the second law because the gas is not an isolated system. The idea that the complexity of the gas increases because the complexity of the animal decreases by a greater amount strikes me as being flat out wrong. The idea of calculating the decrease of the entropy of the animal and showing it is greater than the increase of the entropy of the gas strikes me as absurd. I don’t see any difference between such a calculation and the calculation offered by Emory F. Bunn.<br><br>Statistical mechanics explains why a gas will fill up a container. If a gas consists of N molecules, there are N! = N x (N - 1) x (N - 2)…&nbsp; possible ways the molecules can be distributed in the container. The chance of getting any particular distribution is 1 in N!. I don’t know how to complete the proof. But I know Maxwell’s distribution of velocities in a gas and the bell-shaped curve are derived using Stirling’s approximation: log N! = Nlog N.<br><br>The primary structure of a large protein can have 600 amino acids. There are 20 different kinds of amino acids. Biologists imagine that the 600 amino acids are non-interacting particles, just like in a gas. Just as in statistical mechanics, biologists ask how many different ways there are of arranging 600 amino acids? The answer is 600 to the 20th power instead of N!. Thus, it is impossible to get a protein by random chance since there is only 3 billion years available for the protein to evolve. This is why biologists say evolution violates the second law. It is the same kind of reasoning that explains why a gas will fill up the entire container.<br><br>]]></description>
<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:50:34 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Bible and Science Class Educational Resources</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=362322</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=362322</guid>
<description><![CDATA[I am trying to put together a course, "The Bible and Science," for <span style="font-weight: bold;">undergraduate</span> students at a <span style="font-weight: bold;">secular </span>university and am seeking guidance in terms of syllabi and textbooks from others who have put together such courses.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><br>I would like to introduce my students to three areas:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><ul><li>A historical overview of the interaction/relationship between the Bible/theology and science, including: how a biblical worldview contributed to scientific development in the West, how several scientists were people of faith who thought theologically, and how there has been a "dialogue" of biblical interpretation influencing science and science influencing biblical interpretation.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </li><li>An introduction to biblical hermeneutics which would include looking at key biblical passages and how the Bible-science dialogue influences their interpretation.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </li><li>An introduction to specific issues raised by contemporary science.</li></ul>Suggestions and leads would be appreciated!<br>]]></description>
<pubDate>Fri, 3 Feb 2012 21:14:55 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>GOD BASED MAGNETISM</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=425946</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=425946</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P><BR>GOD BASED MAGNETISM where conventional science went wrong. The facts that were missed, overlooked, ignored, suppressed and denied in conventional science. What is conventional science afraid of, GOD?, the facts?, the truth?</P>
<P><BR>I say that magnets are individual. That is, an individual north pole magnet and an individual south pole magnet. If I am able to prove this self evident fact and as well as you could, then this fact proves that conventional science is incorrect in all disciplines’. Furthermore, Einstein and all the other great scientist before him are incorrect also. If you disagree with this, then you must be able to prove that north and south pole magnets are not individual magnets. </P>
<P>What say you.</P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 19:08:11 GMT</pubDate>
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<title>Flashing the ISS</title>
<link>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=377942</link>
<guid>http://network.asa3.org/forums/posts.asp?topic=377942</guid>
<description><![CDATA[<P>Perhaps a new light metaphor has emerged to be used in religious analogies, otherwise it may be just something kinda fun to talk about.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>On March 3rd, last Sat. night at about 7:30 pm Central time, the local astronomy clubs of San Antonio (SAAA) and Austin (AAS) flashed lights that were observed by astronauts Don Petit and Dan Burbank aboard the ISS.&nbsp; </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>This is a first, as far as we know, though others have tried before to signal astronauts (and probably cosmonauts) with light, but failed.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>We used two relatively small searchlights and a blue 1000mw laser (445nm).&nbsp; Both the lights and the laser beam were easily seen by the astronauts.&nbsp; During the 6 minute (approx.) event, Don Petit had planned to contact us from the ISS using..... a cell phone.&nbsp; [I guess they have nice reception up there. :)]&nbsp; But Don was too busy taking pictures to call us.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>We learned the next morning that the light was easily seen by them, and they sent pictures to prove it.&nbsp; [The "flash point" (pun unintended) is up and left of center.]</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P><IMG style="BORDER-BOTTOM: dashed; BORDER-LEFT: dashed; BORDER-TOP: dashed; BORDER-RIGHT: dashed" title="Flashing observed from ISS" alt="Flashing observed from ISS" src="http://orbitsimulator.com/BA/issflash23360833.jpg "></P>]]></description>
<pubDate>Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:23:47 GMT</pubDate>
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